Alim Dhanji, a seasoned leader and advocate for organizational effectiveness, shares his enlightening journey of fostering inclusive and innovative workplace cultures in this episode of the Culture Leaders Podcast. With a focus on merging the intricacies of national and corporate cultures in global organizations, Dhanji highlights the nuances of leadership across diverse geographical landscapes.
In this deep dive, Alim discusses the pivotal role of HR in navigating and blending different cultural expectations to optimize workplace cohesion and effectiveness. He reflects on his extensive international experience, the dynamic interplay between country-specific and corporate practices, and the strategic integration of these elements to enhance organizational performance.
Notable quotes
“My why… is to make positive impact in the world through empowering others.” – Alim Dhanji
“It’s not fitness, it’s life… it’s about optimal living.” – Alim Dhanji
“We want to keep pushing the edge. It’s a high-performance environment.” – Alim Dhanji
“Leaders are there to serve you and make you better.” – Alim Dhanji
“The role of chief HR officer has shifted a little bit to incorporate chief crisis officer.” – Alim Dhanji
Useful links
Reach Alim at:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adhanji/
Careers at Equinox: https://careers.equinox.com
Get more from the Culture Leaders Podcast
Connect with Us on Social Media:
https://www.instagram.com/jess_kriegel/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicakriegel
https://www.linkedin.com/company/culturepartners/
Visit Our Website:
Enjoyed the episode? We’d love to hear your thoughts! Leave us a review.
TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: So Alim, what is your why?
Alim Dhanji: My why, on most days, it’s getting from the bedroom to the kitchen without stepping on Lego blocks and then going through excruciating pain. But once I get past that, which is a feat, it’s probably quite common and perhaps a little bit cheesy, but it’s to make positive impact in the world through empowering others. And I think that gets adopted in how I think about my kids and raising them.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: I’m gonna sit without stepping on the echo blocks.
Alim Dhanji: To be contributing members of society, self-empowered, et cetera. But it’s also a responsibility that translates into leadership and making sure that you build strong teams and are a servant leader. So I kind of subscribe to those ethos. That’s a force multiplier when you can help others be their very best. And it’s a good feeling when you take someone or an organization from one state to another. It’s always about forward momentum.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Someone or an organization from one state to another going for a four-week intervention. So that is probably my why. That’s beautiful. What is the Equinox why? Is there a mission statement? It’s quite simple, which is it’s not that this is like it belongs in that to impact in the sense that it’s not about just going to the gym. It is how you think about.
Alim Dhanji: So that is probably my wife.
It’s quite simple, which is it’s not fitness, it’s life. And there’s a lot in that to unpack in the sense that, it’s not about just going to the gym, it is how we think about nutrition, regeneration, movement. So it’s not just what you do in the gym, but also what you do outside of the gym. And it gives you that sense of wellness and helps you balance your mental health. And it’s about optimal living. So it’s…
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: But optimal with it. So it’s very consistent with my own why around maximizing. Do you feel like you’re able to fulfill your own personal why more here in this role than in your previous role at Adidas? I mean, does the mission alignment feel greater or were you doing it just as well there as well?
Alim Dhanji: Very consistent with my own why around maximizing impact.
I think it’s portable and certainly I’ve picked opportunities and also which companies I join because there’s an alignment in their mission and my mission. I find most often when you don’t strive for that alignment, it’s hard to get that gratification because there’ll be misalignment. For sure, being part of Equinox, it’s helped me.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: And select them. For sure, being part of it when it helps me keep up with my commitment.
Alim Dhanji: Keep up with my commitment around fitness because my colleagues will call me out on it. But it serves a different purpose in that sense.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Is there a different purpose of that? Well, that’s actually a question I have. So is there a lot of pressure to be a fitness buff if you work there, even in the corporate office?
Alim Dhanji: I wouldn’t say pressure because I do see a lot of carbs around me and people are surprised when I talk about the cakes and pastries and we had a cookie competition the other day. It’s more the inspiration. We have some amazing talent, group fitness instructors, personal trainers who are former Olympians, Broadway stars, and you can’t help but be inspired by their journey.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Ha ha ha!
Alim Dhanji: And so I think that that’s where I get the energy from.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Hmm, that’s beautiful. So one of the questions we get a lot is around the interplay of workplace culture and national culture. What trumps which? And you’ve had a lot of diverse international experience. And so I was wondering if you could share your insight about country culture versus workplace culture in global organizations.
Alim Dhanji: Oh, that’s a tough question. I haven’t gotten that before. Look, I think that there is probably some alignment between how companies’ culture manifests itself in international culture. So for example, I worked at Adidas and I was in the head office in Germany. And I do think that there are certain values.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Ha ha!
Alim Dhanji: That manifests itself in the headquarters company because of where we’re situated in Germany. And whether it’s a national stereotype or not, the focus around process, excellence and efficiency, I do think manifested itself in headquarters. However, if you go to our North American headquarters, which is in Portland, I do think that some of the values of the country were manifesting in…
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. I think that’s a richness that comes out of working in the global organization. I think that’s a good point. I think
Alim Dhanji: and the culture over there. I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. And I think that that’s a richness that comes out of working in a global organization because you get this sort of confluence of national cultures and the diversity of the people. It’s less about a dominant culture and more about different cultures contributing to something bigger.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Okay, wow. So tell us about where you’ve worked and what is your favorite country to work in and what is it like working internationally versus working in the U.S. for a largely U.S. audience? What is it like elsewhere?
Alim Dhanji: So I’ve been to a number of different countries and I’m surprised that I’m still in the same relationship for 20 years because we’ve moved 14 times. It was just crazy. But I’ve lived in six countries and my very first expat assignment was in Hong Kong. And that still remains to me my favorite because it’s such a hyper competitive environment as is back then.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Relationship for 20 years because we’ve worked together. Oh my goodness. It was just crazy. But I’ve lived in six countries and.
Alim Dhanji: But it’s sort of that convergence of financial services and the drumbeat that comes with financial services, but also fashion. So you have this mix of culture and the latest and greatest in trends in music, but there’s also a very rich expat community in Hong Kong. And so I was able to be a part of that. And so on one hand, I was on the other side of the world, but on the other hand, I was part of a group that was also experiencing the same. And that was quite powerful in building new relationships, getting out of your comfort zone, and learning about a different part of the world. I’ve lived in Germany, as I mentioned, I’ve lived in Canada for most of my life. I’ve lived in Australia and Tanzania. So I think, to your question, how does that compare to being just in the US?
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: So I think, you know, to your question, how does that compare to being just in the US? So we are predominantly in the US, but we are also in UK and Canada. And I think part of the reason why I got this role was that I bring a global mindset. And so our role here primarily in the US market, our growth potential, how we scale the organization, is no doubt going to be in the national markets. So that’s something that’s exciting
Alim Dhanji: So we are predominantly in the US, but we are also in the UK and Canada. And I think part of the reason why I got this role was that I bring a global mindset. And so although we’re primarily a US market, our growth potential and how we scale the organization is no doubt going to be in your national markets. And so that’s something that’s exciting because that doesn’t happen overnight.
Even though that might not be for 12 to 24 months, you have to start working on it now. The DNA of the organization has to evolve in order for us to be a more global organization.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Because that just happens. I think that might not be for all the 24 months. You have to start working on how to gain any of your language capital call in order for us to be in a more global language. Wow. So.
Tell us about the commitment that the organization has had to diversity and inclusion and how those principles operate at a day-to-day level and in the long-term strategy at Equinox. What is your take on that?
Alim Dhanji: Yeah, so Equinox, and I was a member 12, 13 years ago, when I was in Toronto. And so I didn’t know much about them to be quite honest. And when the search firm called me, I had to take a minute to really understand the breadth and depth of Equinox group. And within that, I also did a lot of research. And what I found was that the history for supporting DEI was much more organic. It wasn’t driven off of…targets or some type of compliance requirement. It was literally, you know, the workforce is very open and collaborative. We call our workforce a community. You never hear the, you know, rarely hear the term employees. It’s all about the community. And we’ve got very rich and vibrant ERGs that are active. So there’s always something every day, every week.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Or some type of compliance requirement. It was literally, you know, the workforce is very open and collaborative. We call our workforce a community. We never hear really good, determined employees. We call our community a community. And we call it very rich and vibrant ERTs that are…
Alim Dhanji: There’s something that the ERG is doing. And so it’s very much part of the fabric. It’s not sort of an event or episodic. It’s just part of who we are.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: And so you’ve seen, I’m sure, in the news, this pulling away from interest or investment in diversity, equity, and inclusion. What has your response been internally? Have you had at the corporate executive level conversations about this? How is what you’re doing different from others in your experience?
Alim Dhanji: Yeah, so our team is guided by fundamental principles of do the right thing for our people and for our extended community, our members. And so we have been doing this for a very long time. We’ve got a very large, for example, LGBT community. We’ve got many employees who are trans. We’ve got significant diversity right across the board. And we…
We respect that there are differences of opinions, but we all come together as a community and make sure that we are supporting the mission of the company, and also respecting the differences, and not just respecting, but celebrating the differences of our own community, as well as the members that we deliver service to.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Hmm, so going back to the Equinox purpose, when you talked about it’s not just fitness, it’s life. I think there’s a lot of organizations trying to find that balance between work and life, but beyond work-life balance, really bringing your whole self to work and finding fulfillment and wholeness at work. Is there anything that you are doing at Equinox internally that you think is innovative or different to help to speak to that mission?
Alim Dhanji: I mean, I’d have to say that we practice what we preach. So when we think about the fundamentals of our proposition, which is MNR, movement, nutrition, rejuvenation, regeneration, we support that. So everyone in our club has access to the club. Everyone in our company has access to the club. In corporate, you see throughout the day, people are going downstairs. We have an amazing access to the Hudson Yards Club and people take advantage of that. But it’s also through our app, we offer meditation and sound baths and all kinds of other resources that people can find balance in whatever way balance is for them. And for some people that might mean taking half an hour, an hour during the day to get a workout in and they shouldn’t feel scared to do that or guilty to do that.
It is important part of investing in yourself in order to give to others.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: So you see that you see people taking off in the middle of the day say I’m gonna go get a workout in
Alim Dhanji: Definitely, and it’s not just certain levels. You know, our CFO loves to get in a solo cycle ride during the day. I’m a morning person, so I’m one of those crazies who’s at the club at 5 a.m. And I just find that that’s my hour, and it’s the way that I start my day. When I miss my workout, then my team knows that I’m a bit sluggish that day, and it’ll probably be a tougher day for all of us.
But I try to do that for myself first thing in the morning.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Day and I try to do that myself. So are there any projects or initiatives that you’re working on right now that are particularly exciting or things that are coming up?
Alim Dhanji: One in particular is, it doesn’t sound too exciting or sexy, but it is about re-onboarding a company. And where that came from is that we’ve gone through, especially hospitality in our industry, such a massive moment through the pandemic where the company almost flatlined and the industry was hit the hardest. So you’ve got people that were in Equinox Group pre-2019.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Hmm
Alim Dhanji: And then we’ve recruited a whole bunch of new people thereafter. And it seems that, and then we also in corporate, of course, have had hybrid work. So we’ve got different groups of people that have a different understanding of what Equinox really means. And one of the things that we wanted to think about for 2024 is how do we create a cultural moment for everyone to go through the gate together and create this common denominator of what do we stand for?
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: And one of the things that we wanted to think about was how do we create cultural moments for everyone to go through the gate together? How do we create this common denominator of what do we stand for? How do we bring exceptional legendary experiences for our members? And how do we support each other as a community? And so we’re organizing in June this week a…
Alim Dhanji: How do we bring exceptional legendary experiences for our members? And how do we support each other as a community? And so we’re organizing in June, this week of cultural experiences and events that are going to be the re-onboarding of the company. And it will then serve as the on-boarding ritual for anyone else who comes into the company. So I’m really excited about that.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Cultural experiences and events that are going to be re-encored for the time. And it will then serve as the un-encoding ritual for everyone else. I’m really excited about that. So, what are you really, are you, is everyone going? How are you doing a week? Yeah.
Alim Dhanji: Yeah, so I’m probably going to get many leaders here nervous when I say we’re going to dedicate a full week, but it’s a week because we’ve got lots of people in our clubs who are gig workers or work shifts. And so if we keep it a certain day, we’re likely going to miss many people. And so it’s going to be delivered throughout a week, different sessions, different experiences. Some of it is going to be in person, within the club, there are going to be activations, and some of it is going to be virtual through our learning experience platform. There’s just gonna be a hybrid rollout and we’re gonna empower the managers to deliver it as well. Because I’m a firm believer that if you invest in creating that capability among managers, that there will be a force multiplier and have a halo effect for their teams. So it’s really delivering that throughout that week.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: And it’s really, it’s really bad for our family. Okay, so it’s an event at multiple locations as well as online. So each club is hosting this week at various times throughout the week for different events. Is that right?
Alim Dhanji: Correct.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Wow, that’s really interesting. So then you’ve created some kind of manager empowerment toolkit or training to get them to know what to do that week at the event. Is that right? And you’re trying to create an intentional culture around some new decided cultural shared cultural beliefs that you’re trying to roll out in this new onboarding for everyone all over again. Is that it?
Alim Dhanji: Exactly. And it kind of ties back to the principle that if you teach someone in a static way, they might retain some of that knowledge. But if you teach someone with the intent of them teaching others, they’re going to retain much more of that knowledge. And so by doing that with all our people managers, they’re going to in fact be the facilitators. We expect for them to embody the principles and the knowledge that we’re imparting so that they can repeat it over and over again.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: They might retain some of that knowledge. But if you teach someone with the intent of them teaching others, they’re going to retain much more of that knowledge. Mm. So by doing that, you’re going to be able to do that given that in fact we the facilitators, we expect for them to body principles and knowledge from the party so that they can repeat it over and over again. Mm.
Alim Dhanji: So you get an investment not only in culture and creating that moment for everyone and a bit of a ritual. We’re all about rituals here at Equinox, but it’s also an investment in leadership capability.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: What is the culture that is the those shared beliefs you’re trying to roll out? Can you describe what it is you’re trying to be intentional around?
Alim Dhanji: Yeah, on one hand, it is about the community and how we work with each other and have that mutual respect for differences, but also what we’re aligned on in terms of delivering value. On the other hand, it’s sort of the ethos that make us who we are. We’re a category of one. We don’t see competitors in our industry that are at this scale that focus on luxury, culture and wellness all coming together. And so innovation is super important for us.
And so if innovation is important, then how are we constantly taking risk and learning from each other, learning from failures and supporting each other in that sort of environment of pushing ahead? But it’s also it requires collaboration and it requires being much more creative because we’re not looking at a template. We don’t have another organization to look at and say, oh, this is how they’re doing it.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Looking at a template, we don’t have another organization to look at. See, oh, this is how we’re doing it. We want to keep pushing the edge. So it’s a high-performance environment in that sense. But also, on the other hand, we do what we do in service to our members. We are hundreds of thousands of members.
Alim Dhanji: We want to keep pushing the edge. So it’s a high performance environment in that sense. But also on the other hand, we do what we do in service to our members. We’ve got hundreds of thousands of members. And I’ve been at a number of organizations, but in this organization, the hard wiring between employee experience and our member experience is so strong. So we need to be aligned in making sure that we are working on what it means to deliver a legendary member experience.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: So we believe that culture is the experiences people have that shape their beliefs, which ultimately drive their actions and therefore get results. So when you say the member experience, what belief are you hoping to create or shape in the experience you give your members?
Alim Dhanji: Yeah, for our members, we believe they choose Equinox, partly because we’ve got eucalyptus towels and fancy marble in our locker rooms. And it’s a good experience, it’s a clean experience. But I think they join us because of the talent that we have in the membership community that they’re part of. And so that becomes really special. And we have this term where we say we throw the party. If you go at certain hours of the day,
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Mm.
Alim Dhanji: and everything is in motion. You’ve got group fitness classes happening and there are beautiful classes with glass and you’ve got people working out on the strength floor. There’s this energy that you feel. And that’s magical because you draw motivation from it, you draw inspiration from it. How do you create that? There’s no, you can’t learn that in a textbook. You learn from each other and with your colleagues and sharing that best practice. Because ultimately, you know, we want our trainers and all our club talent to instill a level of confidence and aspiration in our members and for our members to draw from also among themselves. So it’s really creating community and I think that that’s what’s really special about what we do.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Well, I think that’s also interesting because when you say it’s not fitness, it’s life. The World Happiness Report says that the number one driver of happiness is connection and community, having people…I think about my own workout history, not that anyone cares, but when I have been most motivated to work out is when I had a group of people that I was working out with. And we were meeting at the same time, we were either doing kettlebells on our own or we were joining a group fitness class and it wasn’t necessarily about the workout, it was about seeing those people. And by the way, we were working out too. So do you have intentional ways of connecting people? Because…when you join a new gym, even if the vibe is good, you don’t know anyone, it can be hard to feel connected, especially in this disconnected world. How do you create intentional experiences to get people to find their people?
Alim Dhanji: Yeah, so we encourage our members to participate in group fitness because there’s nothing better than going into a room with 20, 30 other people. You’re going through the same experience together. It’s gonna be a tough experience. And most of our members know that. We’ve got a lot of proprietary programming that is designed specifically for Equinox. So you go through this really intense program and…
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Specifically for your class. So you go through this really intense program. And at the end of the day, after recession, you feel a sense of accomplishment together. You’re all swayed. You’ve all burned 600 calories, and you’ve gone through this climatic rise and then unwinding together. Also, we have SoulCycle in our portfolio. That’s, I don’t know if you’ve ever gone through a SoulCycle class, but.
Alim Dhanji: At the end of the day, after the session, you feel a sense of accomplishment together. You’re all sweaty, you’ve all burned 600 calories, and you’ve gone through this climatic rise and then unwinding together. Also, we have SoulCycle in our portfolio. And that’s, I don’t know if you’ve ever gone through a SoulCycle class, but that is really an emotional experience. You go into this room, it’s dimly lit, loud music, you’re riding to the beat of the music.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: That is really an emotional experience. You go into this room and think about music. You’re writing for the music. The structure pushes you, encourages you to go to your maximum. And many times, there’s true emotion. There are tears that happen. That’s true. You break through the ceiling that you thought you had. You feel proud. And then you all go through it together.
Alim Dhanji: The instructor pushes you and encourages you to go to your maximum. And many times there’s true emotion, there are tears that show up because you break through the ceiling that you thought you had, you feel proud, and then you all go through it together. And SoulCycle is interesting because people actually will, their friend group will go together and have a SoulCycle event.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Soul cycle is important because people actually grow. The angry will go together and have a soul cycle with that. And they might also go drinking right after with wine and drinks for you. But it’s part of the social experience. Yeah. So at a corporate level with the employees, I mean.
Alim Dhanji: Now they might also go drinking right after, which fine if it works for you, but it’s part of the social experience for them.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: How would you describe the culture currently? You’re going through this re-onboarding, right? But what words, if I were to randomly call a couple people, what do you, how do you think they would describe the current culture?
Alim Dhanji: Yeah, I mean, the top three words that always come up, because I asked that same question in my first 90 days to many people, it’s collaborative, creative, entrepreneurial. And although we’re a large organization with scale, it does feel like a startup. And that’s not in a sort of a negative sense. It just means that we figured out how to scale the business, but with the right scaffolding, that’s invisible.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Mm.
Alim Dhanji: And I think that’s important because when you’re scaling a business and the scaffolding, sometimes the scaffolding is introduced by HR people or finance or, you know, and process becomes a dirty word. The process is just communication. It’s how you implement it. And I have a firm believer that if that scaffolding is invisible, which is not easy to do, but it’s possible, then you can still put the right guardrails to scale the organization, but you’re not going to stifle the creativity.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: But you’re not gonna stifle the free-to. So that’s really good to see that after 32 years, the Grotts’ existence, that DNA continues. So many organizations have a sort of frontline, and then they have corporate, right? And you as well, you have, as you said, shift workers, gig workers, people in the clubs, working face-to-face with your members, and then you’ve also got this corporate system that supports all of those clubs. And are there different cultures there?
Alim Dhanji: And so that’s really good to see that after 32 years of Equinox’s existence, that DNA continues.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Tried to integrate those two groups or are they not integrated and do they need to be integrated?
Alim Dhanji: I think that they need to be integrated on some points, but not all. So 97% of our workforce is actually in the clubs. And that’s where the energy and the magic really happens. So we encourage everyone in our corporate group, and it’s not a massive corporate group, to spend as much time as possible in the clubs. And we have this ritual.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Mm.
Alim Dhanji: Which we do at every end of every month, because it’s the most important, like most retail organizations, you want to get to your targets. And so we have a lot of our corporate leaders out in the clubs that last week of every month. And that energy that is exchanged, they in the clubs feel the support and the recognition from the leaders that are showing up. And likewise, every time I go into the club, I draw energy and I learn something new.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: That energy that is exchanged, they, the clubs feel the support and the recognition from the leaders that are showing up. Likewise, every time I go into the club, I draw energy and I learn something new about our members, about what’s happening in that community. And so for us to be supportive of them, I think that today we are serving leaders that are.
Alim Dhanji: About our members, about what’s happening in that community. And it’s a way for us to be supportive of them. At the end of the day, we are servant leaders that are in service of our people, and our people are in service to their members. Only two groups exist. And so that’s really at the core of our DNA and how we work between corporate and clubs.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Can you tell us an example of servant leadership in action at your organization, a time when you’ve seen someone make a choice to give rather than take or serve rather than whatever the opposite of service, right? I mean, how does that look?
Alim Dhanji: I’ve seen so many examples of varying leaders who, let’s say for example, in some clubs we’ve got a lean structure and it’s a key moment for sales. And let’s say that salesperson is not able to be there because they’ve got a wedding to go to or another commitment. It is not uncommon for one of our leaders to just step in and do that role. There shouldn’t be this sort of experience where any leader is too good to do something.
So, you know, many times leaders have stepped in, but also I think it is, you know, sometimes you’ll have conversations and you’ll pick up on a sentiment that requires a little bit more attention. And I did that recently and we said, well, you know what, there’s something going on here that we need to lean in on and just listen. So we organized a listening session.
And we opened it up to whoever in the company wants to engage. And we had a very successful dialogue, very candid. People really appreciated the opportunity, the space and time, you know, to be seen and heard. And I think that again, forms greater relationships between leadership and teams and our community. And it just reinforces the fact that leaders are there to serve you and make you better.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Leaders are there to sort of make you better. If there are comments, I’d like to share them with that. I was, this reminds me of some Gary Vandertruck social media clip that I watched once, and he said, what, someone asked him what three words of advice he would give to any leader out there and he said, you work.
Alim Dhanji: There are countless examples I can share.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: For them were the three words of advice. Yeah. What if you could go back to young Aleem, beginning of your career Aleem and give yourself some advice now upon hindsight 2020 being what it is, what advice would you give yourself?
Alim Dhanji: It’s so true.
Hmm, I gotta first accept that I’m not young anymore, but my early 20s, that is a long time ago. I would probably say to myself, simmer down. It’s a marathon, it’s a very long marathon. You know, my early 20s, I was very ambitious. I still am ambitious, but the treadmill has probably slowed down a bit, especially after you have kids, they teach you patience.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Sorry about that.
Mm-hmm.
Alim Dhanji: Um, yeah, I think not worrying. I mean, there, there’s, there’s a lot to do in life and understanding that there are different business building blocks that are important. I’d sort of call them those critical experiences, the badges you collect. Um, and you’ve got to go through that. There’s no, there’s no way to accelerate through it. And in the moment, you might not enjoy it, but
retrospect, there are crucible experiences that form who you are today. So just be patient and, and don’t give up on the, on the ambition. Just, just temper yourself.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Don’t give up on the ambition. Just keep going. Hmm, that’s beautiful. Any leadership books or, you know, anything you’re reading right now that you highly recommend that our listeners might check out to get a little more insight into the things that you’re into?
Alim Dhanji: Well, I’ve been doing a lot of oddly. I mean, I was just talking to someone else about it, and you’re gonna think that this was scripted, but Tribes is a book that I’m reading by Seth Godin. And the reason I like it is it takes an anthropological view of how people come together. And when I think about what’s happening over the last three years and…
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Mm.
Alim Dhanji: The role of chief HR officer has shifted a little bit to incorporate chief crisis officer. I wanted to get an understanding, is this here to stay or is this just something of the moment? And my belief is that it is here to stay because the world has shifted. Whether it’s the movement coming out of social justice, it’s this trust with leadership and politicians that has an all time low.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: I want to get an understanding, is this here to stay, or is this just something of the moment? And my belief is that it’s here to stay because the world has changed. Yeah. Whether it’s the movements coming out of social justice, it’s this trust with leadership and politicians that all time grow, engagement levels have culminated. And then you’ve got hybrid.
Alim Dhanji: Engagement levels have plummeted. And then you’ve got hybrid work, future work, gig work, et cetera, et cetera. Everything’s changing. And then AI, you’ve got employee activism with social media. And so you can’t just put in policies that say you can’t talk about this. We don’t live in that world anymore. So I wanted to take a deeper dive to understand how are people organized and what this book that has taught me so far is.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: And social media. And so you can’t just put in policies that say you can’t talk about this. You don’t live in that world anymore. Right. So why is it that you would not understand the importance of the internet?
Talking so far is that at the end of the day, it’s more about similarities than differences. There are some fundamental principles about people coming together and the power of solidarity and how you harness that for collective good and creating more culture carriers.
Alim Dhanji: That at the end of the day, it’s more about similarities than differences. And there are some fundamental principles about people coming together and the power of solidarity and how you harness that for collective good and creating more culture carriers rather than disruptors. So I’m doing a lot of work around this. Keats Farazi, who’s an author and has become a good friend, has been talking about employee civility with me.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Rather than this project. So there’s a lot of work around this. Keith Barazi, who is an author and has become a good friend, has been talking about employees’ civility. And I’m really leading into that, because I think we need to do some work as HR leaders around redefining what we mean by mutual respect with the organization. It’s really, on one hand, G2, but on the other hand, really exciting space to be in.
Alim Dhanji: And I’m really leading into that because I think we need to do some work as HR leaders around redefining what we mean by mutual respect in the organization. It’s really, on one hand, geeky, but on the other hand, really exciting space to look at.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Well, it goes back to the mind-body connection, which is what I think you are all really focused on, because ultimately when you have unhealthy people, either in mind or body, you have at an organization level, it’s really hard to be healthy organizationally. Whereas when you have healthy people at a mind and body level, it’s a lot easier to create healthy organizations. There’s something at the individual level that needs to be solved for before we start throwing culture on top of it and saying, you know, come on guys, we got a great purpose statement. When people are living in fight or flight mode, that’s not going to resonate. You know.
Alim Dhanji: Yeah, look, this might be a bit of a hot take, but I think that we’ve got to pause on how we talk about great place to work and that we’ve got the best culture, et cetera, et cetera. I get that, I understand the value of it and why it’s important, but we’ve got to recognize that we’re living in strange moments at the moment. We’ve gone through a pandemic.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Yeah.
Alim Dhanji: There’s political discourses, war. People are just not feeling good right now. Mental health issues are at an all-time high. We can’t expect people to just put that on pause and come into work and all of a sudden work life is great. People bring that in, it’s lived experiences. So rather than trying to pretend that doesn’t exist, I think we’ve got to work with it and be more empathetic to understand how can we meet you where you are.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Mm hmm. Yeah.
Alim Dhanji: And at the same time, understand that we’ve got value to create. And there’s a purpose that we have, at least at our company, that by working together, we can make a difference in society.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: At the same time, understand that we’ve got values to create and the focus that we have of this art and that by working together, we can make a difference in society. And I think that is a hot take and it is fantastic take, frankly, and the future of work is that corporations have a responsibility to solve that problem because corporations are the new town square. We used to gather in the town square for community, for learning, for nurturing, and we don’t have that anymore. And so now where we come together is at work, where professional and personal development happens is at work thanks to the L&D departments, right? The social activism now is happening at work. Did you see those people protesting in the Google offices? I mean, this is where we come together now. So I think there is a responsibility of corporations to help employees and their members or customers, whatever their business is, to get, to be better, to heal. And yeah, I totally agree. And I’m so glad that you’re in the position that you are leading the charge on that. And I can’t wait to see what else comes from you and Equinox and the rest of the team? My last question, which is my favorite question is what is one thing that you don’t get asked in these types of interviews that you wish more people would ask?
Alim Dhanji: So no one ever asked me why I got back into HR. So it’s interesting because I left HR and I went into a P&L role running Adidas Canada. And it seems to be almost a negative sentiment that we broke out of HR, why did you come back to it? And I think partly it’s probably FOMO, I always suffer from FOMO, but I think everything that’s happening right now in the world that we just talked about.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: It seems to me almost a negative sentiment that we broke out of HR, why did you come back to it?
Alim Dhanji: Has a huge impact around how employee experience and leadership and operating models have to adjust so many discontinuities. And so I just think that being in this role and the people leader, it’s a huge privilege, but also a huge responsibility. And I think that, you know, that’s where we can make the greatest impact. So I encourage more people to…leave business roles and come into the HR role because now is the time.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: Business world and the free travel world is an honest attack. I love that. Well, thank you, Alim. It was such a pleasure. If people wanna learn more about you or about Equinox, where can they go? Up, LinkedIn.
Alim Dhanji: LinkedIn is probably the best for finding me. If you can find me on Insta and TikTok, you’ve got great stalking skills and go for it. But of course, equinox.com and we’re always looking for great talent. And so happy to hear from.
Dr. Jessica Kriegel: To stop this girl from going crazy.
Take what I’ve got.
Wonderful, thank you so much. Thank you.
Alim Dhanji: Thank you, it was such a wonderful chat. Appreciate it.
